How do you feel about the whole APOC detour (F2P, battle pass etc)?

Tex

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Tex#1327
So a lot has happened lately. Alpha 1 Phase 1 was re-branded as Apocalypse, which will be a stand-alone F2P game. Here you can do quests etc, which will transfer over to the MMORPG. It will now also feature a "legendary pass" ($10), which will give you additional rewards. (Approximately 20 cosmetics can be earned by free users and 70+ by legendary pass owners).

Is this a good thing? Will this only be positive for those of us who want to play the MMORPG?

I'm currently cautiously optimistic, about the team being able to use this data in the best possible way to make the MMORPG as good as possible.
 

Kleinature

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I'm not opposed to it as it's main role has always been to test server infrastructure and stability, as well as giving us something to play while we wait for the Alpha 1. They will continue to increase the max amount of players until they feel comfortable with having x amount of players in one area. It's also good for them to trial new cosmetics in this game as well.

I don't know why they keep calling it "quests", as from the examples they showed it is more like achievements.

Having the paid legendary path doesn't worry me too much, however I feel that the difference in free and paid cosmetics are too vast. I guess they have to give people the incentive to purchase the $10 path. Luckily for me and all the alpha 1 backers this will be free. For all new players closer to the launch of Ashes of Creation MMO they will have missed out on A LOT of rewards in each of the season paths. Unless they keep all paths available post launch as well.

The only issue I have is that even though they say it doesn't take away resources from the main game, this would be untrue. Even once Apocalypse is launched Dec 18th they will constantly need to keep an eye on it to see bugs etc. At least they are constantly expanding the team at Intrepid so maybe this won't affect it too much.
 
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squeetee

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I feel overall the Apocalypse game will be a bonus for Intrepid and the future MMO. Yes a team, of unknown size, will most likely be dedicated to maintaining the 3 game modes for however long they keep it up, but they will also provide constant data, publicity, and cash flow. All 3 things a new studio that does not have a publisher or game history needs.

The model for rewards/questing seems very familiar to Fortnite, but I may be wrong due to ~3 hours of game time. It's a solid setup. Sounds mostly like any cosmetics in the BR or future modes that are already being planned will just be handed out as cosmetics in questing/MMO. Making little impact on MMO development.

It's also not a slap in the face shop model. 10 bucks is less than most sub MMOs and you're only getting cosmetics not a P2W package you need to buy. Completely optional.
 
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FliP

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I somehow predicted it, didn't I? :P

I think it is a great idea, as per my previous thread. It gives the community something to play and less to whine about when the game will release.

Server stability and game optimization can be tested and I don't think that this would have been possible until at least Alpha 2 when a large amount of people can join the servers at once.

Dedicating a few people to track, maintain and pull data out of Apocalypse is in my opinion not a set back, as Intrepid Studios will be able to test and improve things much faster and sooner than they would have been able to if they stuck to their original alpha/beta schedule. If anything, this will help get Ashes of Creation out sooner.
 
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Tex

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@FliP haha you sure did.. :P

Lots of good points here. Even if the whole BR/action combat test in itself is obviously good for the MMO (which it is), releasing the BR as a stand-alone title will require them having to support it, bug fixes, etc. It does take some extra effort to maintain something that you've now released officially as a stand-alone title, rather then it just being a testing ground for the MMO.
Still, the negative effects will be small, even if I'm right. So I guess this is a nice move to boost exposure of AoC (even though it isn't the real AoC) and expand the fan-base.
 

FliP

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FliP#8944
They are testing server stability and optimization now rather than before Beta1 and Beta2 when this would be a huge problem.

It is interesting that we will be able to win costumes for the MMO, but the account merges from IS to my.com still worry me.
 

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I myself find BR sometimes a dime a dozen and am much more interested in the MMO aspect and will excited when we can mess around with classes and do low leveling systems. However, I do like that we have a system to test bugs and stability. But there are two main problems I see.

1: People come into Apocalypse and see a BR game thinking that AoC is a BR game or rather that they moved to the "flavor of the month" style game. And since it is still rather unpolished at times, it can give these people a bad flavor.

2: The money system. Listen, I get it, its common in games today to have these transactions if you want them. I don't hate the idea, but, for whatever reason, it feels wrong here. Or rather, if you play the normal path you should be able to unlock the legendary or something? I don't know, it feels strange at this time to have another money system implemented. Maybe if the BR mode was fully fleshed out, and not in beta...
 

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I myself find BR sometimes a dime a dozen and am much more interested in the MMO aspect and will excited when we can mess around with classes and do low leveling systems. However, I do like that we have a system to test bugs and stability. But there are two main problems I see.

1: People come into Apocalypse and see a BR game thinking that AoC is a BR game or rather that they moved to the "flavor of the month" style game. And since it is still rather unpolished at times, it can give these people a bad flavor.

2: The money system. Listen, I get it, its common in games today to have these transactions if you want them. I don't hate the idea, but, for whatever reason, it feels wrong here. Or rather, if you play the normal path you should be able to unlock the legendary or something? I don't know, it feels strange at this time to have another money system implemented. Maybe if the BR mode was fully fleshed out, and not in beta...
Am in total agreement with your intro.

1: IS had one chance to make a first impression. It should have been much clearly stated, even to the point of redundancy, this was a testing mode and that APOC would be a full release "some time in the future".

2: The cash shop should have been hidden away behind a "Support Us" button. I do not have any embers showing even tho' I should and do not have any way to check to see if I bought something accidentally during the pre-release test phase. This was a big "kick me" sign they taped to their own backs.

Compound all this with the official forums being down an unacceptable number of days and it all feels rushed as tho' they have a marketing team and a board room full of execs breathing down their necks.

IS - Toss out those target dates and release the game when its finished, not before.
 
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Narys

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Personally I feel that the idea was a good one, however the marketing of it, way it was packaged and handled left a lot to be desired. The classic "over promised and under-delivered" was a certainly relevant here in my opinion. But at least these issues will hopefully be out of the way by the time the mmo comes out.
 

FliP

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I believe the marketing was as intended because they expected the game to fully release with Open Beta, but they were not prepared for stability issues and came up with the excuse "Oh, this was just a test, the game will actually release later".

Open Beta, to my understanding, is a phase that directly transitions into full release after some minor issues are ironed out.
 

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I have the benefit of hindsight in seeing how all of this played out when writing this opinion, so it's not entirely fair. That being said, it's looking like the decision to monetize the "test" phase so heavily before everything was in place and running smoothly has gone over very poorly.

Now, I'm not one to complain about cosmetic prices. I've been paying them since March when I backed, but I feel like they are quite high in this case. I'm not seeing a single thing I MUST have so far as opposed to the pre-order store where I fell in love with the owl bear and simply had to have everything except the costume.

As for what Intrepid might have done differently here? Well, short of not monetizing the thing at all, which is not likely to happen, they'll have to bring the BR up to par. I would also suggest lowering the price to "buy" levels if that is to remain a feature. I don't think it should be though.

At the moment it's acceptable to allow you to pay to skip, because the time saved cannot be spent on any means of increasing your character's power. In the live game however, time savings for money would fall into the realm of pay to win. Steven seemed to understand this concept well though when he set up how mount skins and dyes will work so I'm not worried there.

All told, my opinion on APOC is that, at the moment, it has flopped. And the main reason is it was too soon, and they tried to do far too much at the exact same time very close to a major holiday. But they made a good call in taking it back in house.
 

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This whole APOC detour was greatest gift to the community. It don't happen very often that companies are showing their level of incompetence this early in the project. Hopefully this made at least few people to open their eyes towards the project.
 

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I'm very worried... I already have memories of Everquest next and Landmark running in my head "Oh we just couldn't make it fun" kills ashes and works on apocalypse... I really hope I'm wrong.
 

FliP

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I am sure it is mainly just to gather move data and improve server stability.

Apocalypse does not frighten me, but the way they failed to launch it does. This will most likely get resolved until release, but I am not optimistic we will have a release before 2020 as they stated. Progress seems way behind to make it on schedule, it's less than a year from "release" and we do not have much other than a Battle Royale, a few test dungeons and quests, combat system that is funtional but has to improve a lot and I am not even sure how far they are on node progression and all the systems they promised us.
 

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I hope like Steven said, the creation of Apocalypse isn't effecting the development of the MMO. I think what's going on is a small dev team is creating the apoc world, combat ect with the majority of the networking/infrastructure team getting it to function. The writers, mmo designers and what not are still pushing ahead on the side with the MMO while the backbone is being created via apoc.

Dec 2019 release is less likely for sure.
 
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