Should IS keep the combat simple or should they expand it beyond what we currently see in Apocalypse?


Tanks with Fishing Pole
Legend Premium
27 December 2018
AoC Class
As pointed out in another thread IS is aiming for a group balance rather than a specific class balance so a little research project arose; What is the goal for a rock-paper-scissors (RPS) PvP balance?

The goal of a rock-paper-scissors PvP balance is for a particular class to have many weaknesses compared to one class and dominating strengths compared to another - Essentially a "I Win!" button against one or a few while being a "Run Away!" scenario against others.

With that in mind a little research was undertaken and there was much to be found.

The prevailing thoughts across the various PvP-centered game forums were;
  • Mage (Paper) beats Warrior (Rock) beats Rogue (Scissors) beats Mage.
and more comically,
  1. Paper beats Rock.
  2. Scissors beat Paper.
  3. Scissors also happens to beat Rock until Rock hits max level at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine and then also beats Paper - Would also beat Scissors, but it can't find Scissors because Scissors is invisible.
  4. So Scissors beats Paper and avoids Rock and that is called BALANCE.

But also came across this quote posted 8-9 years ago;
  • "I tried to make a point in my previous post that the rock, paper, scissors idea SHOULD NOT apply to classes. One class should not always be able to beat any other class. I believe that successful PVP is based around every class having at their disposal abilities that when used can beat any other class when used right. The rock, paper, scissors concept means as a mage I should use abilities A,B,C against a warrior and X,Y,Z against a shaman. My ability to adapt to the situation is what makes me a great PVPer. If I am using abilities A,B,C against all classes and winning then I am OP"
I agree that a highly skilled player with many class abilities should have a better than average chance at prevailing over any other class. This doesn't mean the average player would but with enough testing and practice there would be very few classes that a highly skilled player could learn to master and become competitive in PvP.

Should IS go with the simplified Q, C, V, 1-6 keys combat system the above sentiment appears difficult to implement - For a mage to prevail against a fighter using one strategy but against a rogue using another strategy it would appear that many more skills would need to immediately available.

The number of skills in WoW during WotLK was daunting but a player could eventually learn which were better for PvE and which were PvP focused.

I lean toward more choices because I like choice. But does the average gamer of today?


Forum Bot
11 September 2018
AoC Class
I hope they expand it, but not to the scale of WoW with 4 skillbars required.

They want to implement both tab-targeting and action combat so people can choose their preferred playstyle, although I do not understand how this is going to work without forcing a certain combat style for certain aspects of the game.

Tab-target combat will be superior to action combat in Dungeons and Raids and in general mostly superior to anything compared to action combat which is just infinitely more fun to play.

It is not really a "choice" if one combat style is superior over the other in every aspect. I personally would like them to invest into a proper action combat system similar to Black Desert, even though BDOs combat still has room for improvement.

If they want to force tab-target down our throats, then I hope they invest into a superior version of Neverwinters combat system, which is both tab-target and action combat and similar to what we could see in APOC.

If they don't get combat right, I don't expect to play the game for long and I am sure a huge chunk of the playerbase will not either.